Pray for President Monson

February 13, 2008

I encourage all to earnestly pray daily for the health of President Monson. While unlikely Pres Monson will be the great reformer to bring on the second coming by bringing us back to the original intent of the WofW (preaching it as a good practice rather than a requirement), it’s a even money bet Pres Monson will further simplify our temple liturgy and send the silly Gs the way of the dodo bird once stick-in-the-mud Pres Packer goes on to his eternal reward. For those who scoff, I predicted two piece G’s and simplified temple liturgy years before those changes. The reforms are inevitable, may Monson be the guy to do it.

Steve EM

Are we doomed to the dark side of some issues?

September 13, 2006

Mark Butler is contaminating M* with spill over from the dark side of New Cool Thang. Much of that weird stuff has lead me to ponder why some of Joseph Smith’s controversial works, like the KFD, are not canonized but others are? Not being canonized made it easy for open minded LDS to take the KFD at less than face value and allowed GBH to thankfully put the nails in that coffin. But what do we do with works that probably should have also shared apocryphal status like the KFD but have ended up in our standard works? Can anything be decanonized in a church as traditional as ours or are we doomed to be stuck on the dark side of some issues?

Steve EM

War in the Church?

October 3, 2005

It seems many debates in the bloggernacle are between the “free agency and how to enforce it” BY wing of the church and the “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves” JS wing. It seems the war in heaven continues even within the LDS church.

Does BYU still keep a plaque of that famous JS quote in a dark hall in the basement of the admin building? That said it all about the place when I attended there.

Steve EM

Can Reform Mormonism Work?

August 2, 2005

Fred the Younger says:

Can Reform Mormonism work?

It strikes me that many bloggernacklers and other Mormons who crave open discourse on the Internet are really Reform Mormons or even New Order Mormons (although NOMs strike me more as jackmormons, inactive or afraid to leave for various reasons).

There are so many posts on various blogs these days on why church is boring, uninspiring, too long, too restrictive, etc.

Do you ever see a day when Reform Mormonism will be a bigger draw than the institutional church? Why, or why not?

Eternal Polygamy?

Jenson says:

Do you think that the polygamy practice will be something that is real in heaven? Many LDS members are at different poles when asked this question? Many women on blog sites don’t think it will be something that they will have to be involved with. Opinions?

Law of Chastity for Homosexuals

July 23, 2005

Cindy Jensen says:

Gay members of the Church have it bad, as they say. They can be members in good standing if they never have a fulfilling relationship. What a trade.

However, luckily, they can still function as good members if they agree to celibacy. I have a good friend (single) who’s a temple worker in his 30s and never plans to marry or change his homosexuality (good luck, R.!).

People in the Church have conflicting views on what is allowed in terms of worthiness/temple-worthiness for gays. Some say two gay people holding hands would be breaking the Law of Chastity. Huh???? Does that mean two unmarried heteros would break the Law of Chastity if they held hands?

So how far in a friendship can a gay person go without breaking the Law of Chastity? Kissing? Cuddling? Anything but intercourse?

AofF 12, Descrimination, and Gay Marriage

July 18, 2005

Adrianne of mormondiscussion.blogspot.com says:

i have a question…it’s been bothering me for some time…

if we are supposed to obey the law of the land (AoF 12) and the law of the land says not to discriminate, then why are we as a church able to work against homosexual marriage? A (much much) more in-depth question/idea on this is at my website at but i’d be interested in hearing some reponse on why we work so hard to fight against it?

i think that would be an interesting topic. esp since homosexuality coincides with FMH’s topic.

What is the sealing ordinance all about?

July 13, 2005

Alita says:

What is the sealing ordinance all about? Does anyone really understand it? The fact that the church markets sealing as the highest possible ordinance is interesting, especially when there’s no “further light and knowledge” on what that means. It obviously doesn’t mean that those two people *will* be married forever, just that they *can*. So why bother to get married in the temple when people can do your work posthumously?

What level of unrighteousness is strong enough to break a seal? If two people aren’t “in love” anymore, is that enough? If one person drinks coffee and doesn’t renew his recommend, is that “enough to break a sealing?”

What is the purpose of sealing children to parents? It’s one thing to be born in the covenant, but when parents are sealed to children who are already born, what purpose does that serve?

It’s funny that sealing is considered such a high and sacred ordinance when anyone of legal marrying age who can pass the TR question can get sealed to someone they’ve only known for a week, if they want. That seems trivial to me.

The current post on another blog leads me to think that maybe it’s all just propoganda and manipulation. Desire to attend the temple or even to marry in the temple says NOTHING about a couple’s dedication to each other, willingness to marry, understanding of gospel principles, or anything else. It CAN, but it doesn’t always. In fact, it rarely does.

Not everyone’s route is the same, nor should it be.

Why did colonial americans drink tea, coffee, and alcohol in the first place?

July 6, 2005

Owing to the recent Gospel Doctrine lesson on D&C 89, the Word of Wisdom, there have been various discussions regarding its history and application. Here are a few additional historical points of interest regarding the WofW that didnt end up being discussed.

1) Why did colonial Americans drink tea, coffee, and fermented drinks in the first place? Well, obviously, there were stimulant effects associated with the caffeine or alcohol. But, aside from that, there is a less obvious reason: the water simply wasnt safe to drink. Today, clean water is taken for granted. Back then, clean water was not common. They had no understanding of microbiology, and did not undertand what was making them sick until the 1870’s.

Cholera and typhoid dysentary, as well as other waterborne pathogens, were major killers, and remained so until the early 1900s when municipal water treatment became commonplace.

Boiling the water to make tea or coffee killed waterborne pathogens, and the alcohol in fermented drinks killed waterborne pathogens as well. The colonials knew full well what made them sick and what didnt, and they acted accordingly. It was common practice at the time to mix some fermented drink with water and fruit juice, creating punches or “slings”. This serves to explain why Johnny Appleseed was such a popular guy, as apple cider ferments very easily and the climate and environs of colonial America were particularly well suited to growing apples.

Sure, people could get a kick or a buzz off the stuff if they drank enough, but it was also a simple matter of survival. Dirty water kills people, and boiling it or adding a little alcohol takes care of what was killing people. We know now that boiling water kills the pathogens, but back then people didnt know that, so the only time they boiled it was to put something into it, like coffee or tea.

2) The first three verses of D&C 89 were not part of the original revelation. Note the “Thus saith the Lord…” part starts in v. 4. The preceding verses 1-3 were an introduction, presumably added by Smith, which appeared in the 1835 D&C separately in italics. It was incorporated into the versified text by Orson Pratt for the 1876 edition D&C, nobody is really sure why. It may have been because the heading was concatenated with the text of the revelation in the Kirtland Revelation Book, or it may have been because of the lenient attitude the early Church took towards moderate consumption of the proscribed substances.

As such is the case, it is plain the introductory part of D&C 89:1-3 is in fact NOT part of the revelation, it is a comment by Smith letting early Church members off the hook as far as strict observation of the prohibitions is concerned. The revelation from the Lord is a strict prohibition, it was Smith who moderated that strict prohibition, not the Lord.

Today, people like to point out that the revelation is not a commandment of the Lord because of v. 1-3. Thats simply not true. It is a commandment. Its just that Smith knew the people couldnt observe it so it was “adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints” (v. 3) rather than completely gut the Church of everyone who couldnt observe it, and destroy the Church in the process. There was also the simple practical utility of some of the proscribed substances, as discussed in part 1 above. Now, today, we have no need for this application. Our drinking water is safe, and we understand why it makes us sick.

3) Jeffery Gillam posted some comments on the WofW regarding Smith brewing his own beer as being evidenced in his own diaries or journals. I have not been able to find anything that indicates that is the case. I am presently reading through Faulring’s book, which is supposed to be a comprehensive document with respect to all of Smith’s diaries and journals, and I see nothing to suggest Gillam’s statement is accurate. Granted, I am only about halway though, but I went through the index as well and there is nothing there. If Gillam, or anyone else, would care to provide a citation for the alleged statement on Smith’s part, I would very much appreciate it so as to save me the time of reading through the entire book. Thanks in advance.

Kurt

Shelved Questions your Bishop Fears

July 3, 2005

What are your shelved questions: you know, the kind the bishop looks nervously at you for bringing up to him, and quickly gives you a list of (completely non-related) scriptures to read and pray about?

Here are a few of mine…

a) If Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother(s) are married, who married them (i.e. performed the ordinance/ceremony)?

b) Why isn’t Heavenly Mother a God too? Why isn’t she in the godhead (or if there are more than one mother, why aren’t they all in the godhead)? Even if they are not to be prayed to, why is there no administrative place for them?

c) Are there any women out there who really look forward to illions of kids in the next life? Why????/

d) Why are the recent prophets so old, especially since Joseph Smith was so young? Is it just because they can foist their fuddy-duddy values on the rest of us and make us feel guilty for breathing and having sex drives?

e) If the priesthood ban were really about the priesthood and not about racism, why weren’t blacks allowed to do baptisms for the dead in the temple before 1978 (not perform them, but be the proxies)?

f) The Kinderhook plates…